UFO UpDates Mailing List
From: "Jerry Cohen" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Web Site: CohenUFO.org Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 19:48:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 22:44:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Devereux - Rutkowski EL/TST X-Sender: email@example.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:05:23 -0500 To: firstname.lastname@example.org From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <email@example.com> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Devereux - Rutkowski EL/TST From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:58:30 -0500 (EST) To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Devereux-Rutowski:EL/TST Hello Paul, I am a person who believes in the possibility of ELs & EQLs as related to TST and that they may indeed represent _a small percentage_ of the already investigated cases of UFOs. Furthermore, I personally support any efforts scientists make in furthering their knowledge regarding these highly interesting topics. However, as previously mentioned with regards to its applications to UFOs, I believe your theory has tended to neglect the fact that many ufologists already mentally put these "nocturnal light" cases in a lesser category, in view of the fact that out of the multitude of cases in existence, they are _lesser detailed cases_, and by definition, concern amorphous, rather than, "visibly-structured" objects. Therefore, although your work is highly interesting and will probably help us become aware of certain natural phenomena that exist on and within our planet, its applications to UFO sightings per se are necessarily limited. Many researchers prefer to address cases which are "higher-detailed" "witness-supported" and, certainly where possible, "radar-visual" supported as well. Even if one focuses on "nocturnal light" cases, one must realize that there are different sub-classifications of this grouping as well. It logically must be ascertained what motion the lights are making; whether simply floating in a random pattern or making what appear to be non-random, or what might be considered, "intelligent" moves. Are they interacting with one another? Exactly what type of interaction? Are they found within or out of the atmosphere? Has one or more of them shot off into outer space? How do ELs or EQLs normally maneuver? Are the nocturnal lights in question behaving like normal ELs & EQLs or is their pattern actually inconsistent with same? Each individual case must be carefully examined one at a time to see if it conforms or deviates from an established "norm" for ELs, EQLs, etc. Oh, by the way, do you feel that "norm" is actually established? If so, could you possibly point me to this information? I truly would be most thankful to have this data against which to evaluate cases. What I find myself objecting to most concerning the presentations I have seen concerning Persinger's work is that it has been touted, by the media, as being the "solution" to the UFO enigma. If Persinger feels any differently, he most certainly has a major scientific obligation to correct this. Until he does, all protestations to the contrary, no serious UFO researcher can consider what he is doing as "scientifically ethical" and, at the minimum, to those researchers, everything else he states regarding the issue is thereby justifiably suspect as well. A skeptic writing to this mail list on 13 Feb. 97 wrote: >And I'm sufficiently impressed by what I know is "in the pipeline" >to think *some* UFOs are caused by *some* kind of natural light >phenomenon *somehow* caused by tectonic events (or *some* of them), >at least probably. ....snip.... Most UFO researchers have never said any different and I couldn't agree more. Please note the repeated use of the words "some" & "somehow." However, anyone that thinks they have solved the _entire_ UFO enigma by simply studying nocturnal "lights" and their causes or claiming "_most_ people who see UFOs must be hallucinating" because his "helmet" data tells him so, is unfortunately oblivious to a wide spectrum of UFO data gathered over many years by competent researchers. Although much of the data is not numerical, some of it is, and certainly undeniably real, and to be taken seriously. To become a little more acquainted with where some of the better cases may reside and to appreciate why gaps exist in our present knowledge, I would recommend reading the following 7-part rebuttal which I wrote to answer an essay James Oberg wrote in his effort to downplay Gordon Cooper's UFO claims. These are archived at the following Web address along with Mr. Oberg's original essay: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/ Since I know your time is limited (as ours is too), beginning with "O/C rebuttal: part 2" might be logical, as it presents one small piece of "UFO data" for one's evaluation. Perhaps you could tell us how this case might fit with your theories or possibly have "other scientists you know" explain it for us. As Chris pointed out along the way, a relatively large number of sightings are not so easily explained by any of the theories your group is investigating. A number of the sightings to which I am refering are of _structured craft_ of various types that have been documented as interacting with people; sometimes large groups of people. If you have not read it recently or are not familiar with it, the following Blue Book case (Exeter, N.H., 1965 ) archived at the following addresses, may possibly be enlightening: Exeter 1/2 http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jan/m26-010.shtml Exeter 2/2 http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jan/m26-008.shtml The Exeter case was taken in its entirety from: Hynek, J. Allen . "The Hynek UFO Report" . paperback, pp 154-166 . Dell Publishing Co. 1977 : which gleaned a basic portion of its material directly from the Air Force's Project Blue Book files. (If you do not have Web access for any reason, I would be happy to send it to you by email.) Paul, I can't help but wonder where _"Exeter"_ fits in your theories? I am curious as to what tectonic, electromagnetic, etc. forces you feel may have caused all the people in varied circumstance, in this case, to "mass hallucinate" the exact object they have separately related therein. There were approximately 60 or so witnesses to this case. Any "newbies" to our mail list who perhaps may be reading "Exeter" for the first time might, after reading same, then possibly examine both your accumulated data and Mr. Persinger's to see if they find any solid answers to "Exeter" residing therein. I am sure you can direct us to these. If I've already missed this, I apologize as I was not able to follow the entire thread of your conversation with Chris. Perhaps this might be a good time to convey this again to those who might also have missed it. Thank you. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: "Jerry Cohen" <email@example.com> P.S. As all letters to this mail list, this letter is being archived on the Web at the following address. http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/ It can be found by locating the approximate date of this post and then finding the subject "Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Devereux - Rutkowski EL/TST" listed therein. Reading it there will permit one to click on the addresses and go directly to the articles mentioned herein. P.P.S. Forthcoming will be Dr. Hynek's reevaluation of Blue Book unidentifieds and a detailing of the classification system he gave us back in 1972. I am doing this so readers can clearly see where TST and its related theories presently stand in the grand scheme of things regarding UFOs. For other Cohen/Devereux discussions
Page from the website of: CohenUFO.org
UFO UpDates - Toronto - firstname.lastname@example.org
Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-696-0304
A Hand-Operated E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of UFO Related
To subscribe please send your first and last name to email@example.com
Message submissions should be sent to the same address.
Link it to the appropriate Ufologist or UFO Topic page.
Archived as a public service by Area 51 Research Center which is
not responsible for content. Financial support for this web server is provided by the Research Center Catalog.
Software by Glenn Campbell. Technical contact: firstname.lastname@example.org
Financial support for this web server is provided by the Research Center Catalog.